Genesis 8

Discussions about general topics of interest, like lighting, material customization and so one
DeviantShade
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby DeviantShade » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:19 am

Nathanomir wrote:After testing Victoria 8 for a day, I have to conclude that there really isn't enough difference between her and Victoria 7 for V8 to be called V8. More like V7.3. We gain HD expressions. Way cool. We gain geografted eyelashes. Okay. Why? We gain a base figure who is three inches taller than V6 and V7. Isn't 5'11" tall enough? We gain a more primitive mesh that is even further removed from natural human topology than V7. And I can't convert my V7 characters to V8 without major effort. A 22 year old V7 looks 40 in V8. So, I dropped $40 on an experiment. It was money well spent, really. It told me to wait for Victoria 9. Hey, I bought a Hyundai in 1986! I'm 6'4". You do the math on that. So, I've spent more on less.

There's seems to be a trend of decreasing polycounts since Genesis. Maybe DAZ is trying to get into the game industry? As for geografted eyelashes, it's to make life easier for content creators. (Eyelashes can be a pain to navigate when sculpting.) I agree its far too early to make the transition, the biggest barrier for me will be losing all my G3 morphs. So until DAZ releases G8M and all the legacy utilities for G8, I'll be sticking with G3.
Crossing the Uncanny Valley

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fuzzy70
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby fuzzy70 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:00 am

I have to agree in that in general the quality of a lot of content (not just figures) seems as if it was geared for the game industry, not just geometry but how the textures are done (heavy use of normal maps). I tend to use a lot of displacement maps & as such why 95% of what I do is in DS/Iray currently due to Lux issues with displacement in the accelerated modes, plus other Lux issues I have none of which are down to Reality.

Don't get me wrong with regards to normal maps, they serve a purpose and are more resource friendly than displacement maps but in still renders they can quite often fail with closeup work etc on edges or things such as stonework or water (especially where water meets an edge of a pool or the character is in water).

I have bought the V8 Pro bundle, mainly because a high percentage of what's in the bundle I can make good use of, plus later down the line no doubt the likes of Raiya and so forth will produce a figure that requires V8. So while it's new as usual Daz discount's new releases so I grabbed it at the lower price rather than come across something later and have to spend more.

In my eyes Genesis 8 is no better or worse than previous generations as simply just provides us with another option to use if we want to, there's still plenty of content for the previous generations & will be more products produced for them for some time to come. I recall from numerous sources complaints & such along the lines of "G3F/V7, I'm not going to use that as doesn't do this or that & my content won't work with it etc etc" only for them to do a u-turn later on and keep singing the praises of the new generation.

The people that will have the most hardship to me are the content providers rather than the consumers as they have to face the "do I risk investing my time and effort into this new product and hope it takes off, or just continue as before with the previous generations". Of course they have the option of fixing their old catalogue to work with the new generation and repackage it which could take them far less time once they have sussed out the differences and so forth.

Regards

Lee
Windows 10 x64, Daz Studio 4.9 x64, Poser Pro 11 & whatever the current version of Reality is :lol:

PlatnumK
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Genesis 8

Postby PlatnumK » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:02 am

Ebola wrote:
PlatnumK wrote:G8 Base + G3 Skin + V8 Preset by DsinR
G8_Test.jpg


Excellent Starter Preset DsinR



I am new in the daz3d world
I forked out 49 bucks for reality and the next day went on sale,
went and bought me a v7 pack and 23 hour later we en up with v8..
is this preset free or cheap???
where do I get it??


If you look near the beginning of this tread DsinR created a quick preset for V8 that can be downloaded for free

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Nathanomir
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby Nathanomir » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:59 am

DeviantShade wrote:There's seems to be a trend of decreasing polycounts since Genesis. Maybe DAZ is trying to get into the game industry?


With the advent of Genesis 3, that's pretty much a given, although DAZ itself doesn't say so. That's the reason behind the twist bones in the arms and legs. They're redundant and useless for a still artist, and a pain in the neck for clothing designers trying to map them. But useful for the motion artist like a game developer.

Personally, I think there's room in this 3D world of ours for two totally different figure lines. One based on the high poly count Genesis 2 for us still artists who like maximum realism and high sculptability, and another based on the low poly count Genesis 3 for those who want maximum movement and low resource useage. But that makes too much sense for a marketing department.

Here's a quandary. Maybe one of you actually knows the reason. Genesis 2 is claimed to have been a resource hog, and Genesis 3 is easier on the resources. I've found the opposite to be true. G2 loads faster, poses faster, and renders faster. G3 loads slower, poses slower, and renders slower. It doesn't seem to matter how much I subdivide the character or not. To get G3 to pose as fast as G2 at subdiv 3, I have to subdiv her/him to 1.
Sometimes, my wife wakes up grumpy. Sometimes, she lets me sleep.

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Nathanomir
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby Nathanomir » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:12 am

fuzzy70 wrote:
In my eyes Genesis 8 is no better or worse than previous generations as simply just provides us with another option to use if we want to, there's still plenty of content for the previous generations & will be more products produced for them for some time to come. I recall from numerous sources complaints & such along the lines of "G3F/V7, I'm not going to use that as doesn't do this or that & my content won't work with it etc etc" only for them to do a u-turn later on and keep singing the praises of the new generation.


I was one of those people! :D

You should have heard me in June, 2015. No, you shouldn't. I was downright hostile! "NO! I Won't do it! Too low polygon counts. That ugly mouth! Bah, phlegm, buttocks!"

Then, two things happened. First, clothes began to appear in the G3 line that I wanted. They fit G2 like tailored gloves. Within a year, I had a whole closet full of G3 clothes, and still hadn't bought Vicki 7 or Mike 7. After a while, I couldn't help but wonder what they'd look like on the figures they were made for.

Then, people like Zev0, Powerage, and Xenic101 released their sculpting systems. I saw the results and thought, "WOW! They're getting that level of realism out of the brick-like Genesis 3? Okay." Those systems gave G3 a high level of various textures, permitting a realism I couldn't get with Genesis 2. So, a year and a half after Victoria 7's ascension to the throne, I bought her. I knew ... I KNEW ... that about the time I fully delved into the figure, that Victoria 8 would appear.

This time, I bought V8, tested her (abused her, actually) and arrived at conclusions based on experience, not emotion.

I may sound pretty negative at the moment, but I'm actually withholding full judgment until Zev0 and Xenic release sculpting systems for G4 ... G8. GAH! Bake my brain, DAZ! It is possible that they can release systems that will put V8 over the top. If they match V7/M7, it isn't worth the money to convert, as there really isn't that much difference in the two generations. But, if they produce systems that are as exponentially superior to G3 as G3 was to G2, then I may just make the move. By then, perhaps the sculpting systems will permit the transfer of my recurring characters without the aging of two decades that happens now. And, of course, such a move will be on the advent of Victoria 9's ascension to power. I'm just that slow.
Sometimes, my wife wakes up grumpy. Sometimes, she lets me sleep.

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sigstan
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby sigstan » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:54 pm

Ebola wrote:I am new in the daz3d world
I forked out 49 bucks for reality and the next day went on sale,
went and bought me a v7 pack and 23 hour later we en up with v8..

Learn first rule in DAZ world:
Never, Ever buy anything at full prize. There will always be a sale at some point (most likely with discounts of 40-50%)

Unless it is something really must-have, never buy anything not discounted at least 30%.

If you are on initial content build-up, then it can actually be more economical to join Platinum Club plus. But if you do, make a budget for how much you spend per month. Believe me it can get very expensive (even if cheaper).

When you look at potential outfits always consider how versatile they are in terms of materials zones and general mix-and-match suitability.

Check around for free content. It is not as common for the newer chars, but there are a lot of stuff for the older V4.

Some content providers are fantastic, while others suck big time. Learn to recognize the good ones.
Last edited by sigstan on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
/Sigstan

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sigstan
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby sigstan » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:20 pm

Nathanomir wrote:
DeviantShade wrote:With the advent of Genesis 3, that's pretty much a given, although DAZ itself doesn't say so. That's the reason behind the twist bones in the arms and legs. They're redundant and useless for a still artist, and a pain in the neck for clothing designers trying to map them. But useful for the motion artist like a game developer.

Not sure why DAZ bothers. As far as I know DAZ figures are very rarely used in games. There are other providers with much better game engine and workflow support. It takes a lot more than decreasing poly-count, using normal maps and providing twist bones.
/Sigstan

cmacks
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby cmacks » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:49 pm

I wonder if G3F will be the V4.2 of her day, and if we won't get a truly improved figure till about V10 or so...

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fuzzy70
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby fuzzy70 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:50 pm

sigstan wrote:
Nathanomir wrote:
DeviantShade wrote:With the advent of Genesis 3, that's pretty much a given, although DAZ itself doesn't say so. That's the reason behind the twist bones in the arms and legs. They're redundant and useless for a still artist, and a pain in the neck for clothing designers trying to map them. But useful for the motion artist like a game developer.

Not sure why DAZ bothers. As far as I know DAZ figures are very rarely used in games. There are other providers with much better game engine and workflow support. It takes a lot more than decreasing poly-count, using normal maps and providing twist bones.


Daz's sister company Morph 3D deals with game figures, mainly unity I think but not been on their website for ages.

Regards

Lee
Windows 10 x64, Daz Studio 4.9 x64, Poser Pro 11 & whatever the current version of Reality is :lol:

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sigstan
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Re: Genesis 8

Postby sigstan » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:18 am

fuzzy70 wrote:Daz's sister company Morph 3D deals with game figures, mainly unity I think but not been on their website for ages.

Correct.

The MCS characters are available in Unity. They currently use a very modified version of the DAZ Genesis 2 Male and Female and a poly-count that no DS user would ever consider "useable" for anything other than content making. Apart from this the MCS system is considered difficult to work with even for people familiar with DAZ figures (I've tried the free MCS female in Unity and can confirm this).

Content wise there does not seem to be much going from DS to MCS. As I understand it, this is a matter of missing dev-tools, but poly-count would also be a factor here.

So considering that the two character lines really have very little in common, I think the wise decision for DAZ would be to keep them apart.

Actually Reallusion's characters are getting a lot more traction lately. Their latest character generator and PBR changes provides a very smooth workflow to Unity and Unreal. Since their main focus is animation (IClone), they also do not alienate their primary users :)
Last edited by sigstan on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
/Sigstan


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