interesting find regarding geometry exporting

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Rivaliant
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 am

interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby Rivaliant » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:42 am

I made a thread how to fix some issues regarding some export issues related flat geometry
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=927
here


but i have made a small discovery that maybe someone can explain

I decided to download MeshLab because it can open the .ply files that Reality exports for Luxrender
because i just needed to see if there is anything i can find that might be causing this issue

I threw in a primitive cube into Daz for this test
Image
as you can see here its Just the cube, 6 faces, 8 vertices

and i had set only the IBL on with no image, just white and a camera to run the scene

Image
and ofcoruse this is what it produced when run though Reality 4

Image
and this run though Reality 2

Image
and this is what the cube looks like in MeshLab after the export
it is divided in Loop 1 level
which doesn't seem to be the problem

But check this out
On the right of the program lists the Vertices and faces
Image
"cube_8" is the ply exported by Reality 4
and "cube_cube_Default_2" is from Reality 2

but R4's cube has 18 vertices on the now 12 faces
while R2's cube has 24 vertices on 12 faces

i'm not sure where these vertices are coming from


8 to 24 makes more sense if each corner now has 3 vertices on top each other

but 8 to 18? that's 2.25 times more vertices
that's 2 per corner plus 2 just...Some where?

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mac
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:20 pm

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby mac » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:00 pm

Yeah, that's a thing I noticed too. The cube below is a cube with welded faces (8 vertices, 12 edges, 6 faces) I created in Blender, exported to Poser and rendered in Reality 4.

welded.png



but if you create a cube with separated faces (24 vertices, 24 edges, 6 faces), the cube will be rendered like this:

separated.png


I use a tool in Blender called "extrude" when an object appears in the render like the first image. Check this link: https://blenderartists.org/forum/showth ... es-of-mesh.

Also I use another tools in Blender called "delete loose" and "degenerate dissolve"; the first one delete loose vertices, edges and faces, and the last one dissolve zero area faces and zero length faces; I used them from time to time because sometimes I have troubles with some renders because the geometry of the objects have some errors; if you've ever had a QBVH error in luxrender, that's because there are some problems with the geometry.

To be honest, I'm not an expert in Blender or any other tool, but what I described here is the result of trial and error.

Edit: when I wrote that sometimes the geometry of the objects have some troubled mesh (I don't know how to name this problem), tnat's not Reality's fault; it's just the way the were created in the first place.

Note: English is not my native language, sorry in advance for grammar errors

Rivaliant
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 am

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby Rivaliant » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:24 am

My question is this



Why Does Reality 2 export the models so much Better then Reality 4?
I brought this up Years ago on the older Reality Forums.

Why is noone confirming this to be an issue or at the least addressing any misunderstanding i'm having.

I'm about ready to abandon Reality for Luxus, and at worse, Luxrender all together.
and I don't want to do that
I have been a huge defender of Luxrender and my attempts to teach it to those who want to use it as effectively and efficiently as possible.

But i don't' think i can keep defending Reality/Luxrender as a viable rendering solution for us Daz Studio guys/gals when even basic support is nearly non existent at this point.


Even in the Luxrender Forums, no one can give me an answer to why this is happening.
Just one guy telling me to ReModel the ply files in Blender.

That isn't an option. The sheer fact I have to work around SO many Problems that Reality has just to get a scene to render

Remodeling ply files it exports Shouldn't be a solution that is even under consideration

When it wasn't a problem in Reality 2.

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mac
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Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby mac » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:23 pm


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sigstan
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:59 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby sigstan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:10 pm

/Sigstan

Rivaliant
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 am

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby Rivaliant » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:19 pm

Much like how he wasn't convinced that the Bump Conversion only stepped the values from Centimeters to Decameters rather then Centimeters to Meters
which makes all the bump maps 10% stronger then the settings plugged into Daz when exported through reality in Plug and Play

I don't know what more evidence anyone would would need when i open the ply files to find that Reality 2 exported More vertices on an object then Reality 4 is
which should be having an adverse effect on how luxrender processes these obj's

If there is something he knows that we don't on Why Reality 4 is doing this. I'd like to know what it is So i can correct it if it's something I'm doing wrong.

with that tho i have to say this


I still say Luxrender CPU based rendering is Vastly superior to any GPU enabled Physics Based Rendering engine
This includes Luxcore( as it exists in LuxRender 1.6 ) on quality
Speed is another issue entirely but index of Quality far out weight its speed in all of my tests i have ever done

and the workflow positives, being able to render multiple scene files and networking capabilities should be blowing iray out of the water

IF there was more in program integration
its a shame that Luxus never took off The issue i hear with Luxus was that is was kinda user unfriendly

and the issue I've always had with Reality is that it took away Too much control from the user for that sake of User Friendliness

If Reality could use the same User Friendly methodology while not taking any control away from the user in experimenting with all the features avalable while being In Program like Iray or Luxus is
It sure it would had been the rendering solution rather then Iray.
but however it came about, i'm sure some kind of partnership with nvidia of some kind, put all the ground work to make that happen

The pieces where there , just no one wanted to put them together
Homebrew lost out to Corporate product placement

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mac
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Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby mac » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:36 pm


Rivaliant
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 am

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby Rivaliant » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:15 am


Rivaliant
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 am

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby Rivaliant » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:42 am

Image
fantastic

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sigstan
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:59 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: interesting find regarding geometry exporting

Postby sigstan » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:54 am

Last edited by sigstan on Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
/Sigstan


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